zebits: @AnonV3: Because MIss Piggy is hella sexy? The floppy head? You're the first person to bring it up, actually. Why DO they look like Muppets to you? Do they look that way in all my MLP art or are you just saying that based solely on this one piece?
AnonV3: @zebits: Checked out your other stuff - there's a bit of it but not as extreme as this. (I actually thought you were someone else that does REALLY muppet-y stuff, my bad). So in relation to THIS picture - the nose.
It's ALL in the nose. It's WIDE, man. And bulbous. Not jsut the nose. The eyes are a bit too low, the head is more of an ovoid rather than a circle and the ears are ... well, actually I've seen them that low in the show as well but they are a bit lower than I'd think.
I checked out your other stuff (as I said) and - ugh, Spyro and Homestuck but I like ponies so what is my faggot ass complaining about? - but in >>1521109 Spyro's nose is a smidge muppet-like. Just a smidge, a hint if you will. In that one, you'd have to go looking for it because it's not bad otherwise.
And looking at that Spyro one, the lines are super-thick. Which seems to be your style and that's cool - but the balance between the lines and the white-space that is his face might be off, considering the interior lines are much thinner? It might make his head feel lopsided as one side's eye is outlined partially with thick lies and the other done wholly with thin. I'm an 'okay' critic but not a trained one so take THAT bit of brain fart with a hint of salt.
Finally noticed a few other pony pics you've done and, yes, muppet there as well. Entirely in the nose, I'm afraid. In >>1302396 Rarity's schnoz is, again, wide and bulbous. Maybe it's an attempt to give each pony a specific face? They can be a tad same-y so there is that. But whatever else may be, Rarity looks like a muppet.
In >>1302370, Luna looks like one of those creatures from the Dark Crystal a bit. Again, the nose/muzzle area. Too flat, a bit long. And Twitwi has that 'kid from the Dark Crystal' look about her. Hmmm, maybe I'm fixated? Anyway ...
I like how you're really trying to give each pony a personalized face, though. I think it's a good idea and helps remove a bit of the cut-paste aspect some of the show might have. But at least with the ponies, they're coming out a bit muppet. I, unfortunately, have no direct suggests to stop it. I can say 'it looks muppet here' but I can't picture in my mind's eye how to fix it. I'm sorry about that, wish I had more art training so I could help more. Good luck though!
zebits: @AnonV3: This was all very helpful, thank you! Now that it's been pointed out, yeah, I definitely see the Muppet thing. I guess Jim Henson is even more of inspiration than I realized. :D With ponies, part of the issue I have drawing their faces is my innate style; I can do totally flat faces or really long faces pretty well, but the in-between flat and long face designs of the show has always left me a bit at a loss. It doesn't help that I very rarely draw MLP (all of the pieces I've done were commissions or requests). But I will keep all of this in mind should I draw more of them. :)
As for Spyro...yeah... Classic Spyro has a really odd face in general and it was a challenge to make that look anything other than official art smug. :D That particular piece isn't a favorite of mine, but the commissioner loved it, so that's all that matters in the end.
And Homestuck...well, what can I say? I like well-realized alien chicks and there is so much weird porn from this comic out there. I couldn't help myself. :D I got my start in furry fandom and do all of this art stuff as a hobby, so there's not much better I'm going to get. :D
Thanks again for the critique! It is very helpful and definite food for thought when I do later work. :)
Oh! In regards to the really thick lines: I tend to leave them off around the eyes to highlight the eye a bit more. I'm guessing that doesn't work as well these days as it did when my character outlines in general were less beefy. Would outlining the entire character (eye and all) that thickly look better, do you think? I've been a bit torn about the really thick outline since I started using it. On the one hand, it can add a lot of great dynamism to a piece and allow me to make internal lines on a character more varied. On the other hand, well...it has it's drawbacks. Methinks I need to just mess around with the style some more.
AnonV3: @zebits: Honestly, I like varied lines myself. Thick lines around 'heavier' or darker areas of the body - add shading without adding shading - and thinner lines around lighter or ... 'lighter' (weight-wise) areas of the body. That's a bit of a style-imposition though - I don't want to take your style away or anything.
I spent the last hour looking for this one perfect example of line-thickness indicating shading and weight but fucked if I can't find it. Alas. It was all line-work as well, not even crosshatching for shading. It was a marvelous example of pure lines. Then again, it was a single-figure drawing ... anyway, it's just a suggestion.
zebits: @AnonV3: It definitely sounds interesting! Although I know what you're talking about in general and I always liked that style. The only reason I don't do it myself is because I would never be able to keep things straight in my head. The hatching "shading" I do is less about showing shadows and a lot more about making lines and body parts stand out for me personally. I have no idea how other folks see it, but it seems popular enough; I used to make a living doing art for money.
zebits: Hey AnonV3! The last time I drew FiM pony faces I tried to keep your suggestions in mind. I'm not sure how well it worked, but they're up on my blog (there wasn't any sexy content to them, just blood and comedy, so they aren't up here):
http://youll-go-blind.tumblr.com/post/110103127740/the-end-of-the-dead-pony-saga-someone-requested
- Reply
It's ALL in the nose. It's WIDE, man. And bulbous. Not jsut the nose. The eyes are a bit too low, the head is more of an ovoid rather than a circle and the ears are ... well, actually I've seen them that low in the show as well but they are a bit lower than I'd think.
I checked out your other stuff (as I said) and - ugh, Spyro and Homestuck but I like ponies so what is my faggot ass complaining about? - but in >>1521109 Spyro's nose is a smidge muppet-like. Just a smidge, a hint if you will. In that one, you'd have to go looking for it because it's not bad otherwise.
And looking at that Spyro one, the lines are super-thick. Which seems to be your style and that's cool - but the balance between the lines and the white-space that is his face might be off, considering the interior lines are much thinner? It might make his head feel lopsided as one side's eye is outlined partially with thick lies and the other done wholly with thin. I'm an 'okay' critic but not a trained one so take THAT bit of brain fart with a hint of salt.
Finally noticed a few other pony pics you've done and, yes, muppet there as well. Entirely in the nose, I'm afraid. In >>1302396 Rarity's schnoz is, again, wide and bulbous. Maybe it's an attempt to give each pony a specific face? They can be a tad same-y so there is that. But whatever else may be, Rarity looks like a muppet.
In >>1302370, Luna looks like one of those creatures from the Dark Crystal a bit. Again, the nose/muzzle area. Too flat, a bit long. And Twitwi has that 'kid from the Dark Crystal' look about her. Hmmm, maybe I'm fixated? Anyway ...
I like how you're really trying to give each pony a personalized face, though. I think it's a good idea and helps remove a bit of the cut-paste aspect some of the show might have. But at least with the ponies, they're coming out a bit muppet. I, unfortunately, have no direct suggests to stop it. I can say 'it looks muppet here' but I can't picture in my mind's eye how to fix it. I'm sorry about that, wish I had more art training so I could help more. Good luck though!
As for Spyro...yeah... Classic Spyro has a really odd face in general and it was a challenge to make that look anything other than official art smug. :D That particular piece isn't a favorite of mine, but the commissioner loved it, so that's all that matters in the end.
And Homestuck...well, what can I say? I like well-realized alien chicks and there is so much weird porn from this comic out there. I couldn't help myself. :D I got my start in furry fandom and do all of this art stuff as a hobby, so there's not much better I'm going to get. :D
Thanks again for the critique! It is very helpful and definite food for thought when I do later work. :)
Oh! In regards to the really thick lines: I tend to leave them off around the eyes to highlight the eye a bit more. I'm guessing that doesn't work as well these days as it did when my character outlines in general were less beefy. Would outlining the entire character (eye and all) that thickly look better, do you think? I've been a bit torn about the really thick outline since I started using it. On the one hand, it can add a lot of great dynamism to a piece and allow me to make internal lines on a character more varied. On the other hand, well...it has it's drawbacks. Methinks I need to just mess around with the style some more.
I spent the last hour looking for this one perfect example of line-thickness indicating shading and weight but fucked if I can't find it. Alas. It was all line-work as well, not even crosshatching for shading. It was a marvelous example of pure lines. Then again, it was a single-figure drawing ... anyway, it's just a suggestion.
FUCK, now I REALLY want to find that piece!
http://youll-go-blind.tumblr.com/post/110103127740/the-end-of-the-dead-pony-saga-someone-requested