Crimson-Snow: Another fantastic Gantz commission from AHV! I hope you enjoy this pic as much as I do and as much as he enjoyed working on it. Actually maybe some of you would like to share ideas for other pics?
Anonymous1: Well the anime season with the bum hunting psychos didn’t exactly follow the manga and was kinda blah. But the girl with big tits that Kurono ended up carrying on his back wasn’t so bad. Don’t remember her name but she was quite fine.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I feel for the story arcs the anime covers of the manga the anime does a better job with them. I don't believe strict adherence to the manga means good either cause there is a lot of " filler " I very much enjoy. Anyway so you'd like to see Mika Kanda huh? Now that is an idea I love!
Anonymous3(1): @Crimson-Snow: Come to think of it, the biker dad felt like a huge improvement. He had morals and wasn’t just a thug so that when he dies, you kind of feel bad for him and the family he leaves behind. In the books, he’s indistinguishable from his criminal friends.
I mean her or that Sadako chick. There were a few other cute girls from branches outside of the Tokyo one but I can’t really name them because they didn’t get much time to do anything or leave an impression.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Yeah I totally agree about the biker guy! Oh yeah the Sadako chick yeah the vampire girl Chiaki! Would be great idea to have some art of her.
Anonymous5(1): @Crimson-Snow: I sometimes forget that the vampires were even there. They just kind of showed up out of the blue, caused some problems for a bit and than left with no explanation. I can appreciate some mystery and some questions unanswered that can leave room for speculation. But that did feel a bit like a dangling plot thread. Just no answers or resolution and it kinda went nowhere. And I’m just wondering what they were even about. Their motives, their purpose. Anything. There are times when not knowing something can really help. Like a character showing up covered up and shrouded in mystery can be intriguing until you get their backstory and he’s just some guy. I dunno if that’s what the author was going for. I didn’t really scrub the internet for interviews and maybe he gives a little insight and more answers to what was going on.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I'll be honest imo Gantz is riddled with issues like that. To me the story and characters just kept deteriorating farther and farther after the buddha and shorty alien missions. The only reason I even kept reading was I found Tae Kojima to be an endearing character. The final arc of Gantz is basically just shock value porn lol. Even the ending is barely fleshed out.
Another glaring example of the authors bad writing is what he does with Nishi. Nishi's first death is genuinely sympathetic and it gave closer to his character and showed us that he was basically just a scared fucked up child deep down. With his later revival this is seemingly retconned and he is made a flat out villain. The character gets no depth from there onward and dies a card carrying villain who IIRC even tried to murder Tae simply for the lulz. This writer is fantastic at introducing interesting characters and elements however he fails to give them a satisfying or meaningful conclusion almost every single time.
Anonymous6(1): @Crimson-Snow: I won’t deny he can’t introduce ideas worth exploring. Like other teams out there or more experienced members that’ve been around longer. But the pro in the big suit that gets Yamcha’d immediately is pretty telling that he’s not really interested in going further with them. And I’m not sure what kind of mindset he was in during that last arc but my god was that such a brutal slog to get through. Like did he write it knowing it was in decline and was getting the axe or did he just not care after a certain point and was just killing time? Because there’s only so many times you can cut to a bunch of faceless anonymous randos reacting on social media before it feels like the series was even a chore for him to work on.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Literally agree on all of this. Simply put imo he's a bad writer and it shows throughout the entire manga. The anime was what made me like Gantz in the first place and they did a better job with the arcs they had to work with then he did with his manga imo. I don't get the last arc either and it just came across as " I'll throw as much heavy shit as I can at the readers to make them hate these aliens and then i'll act like killing them is wrong .... finally I'll do it anyway lol. " We got two things out of the final arc that I was satisfied with , those fuckers got wiped out and Tae at least gets a happy ending. Everything else in the story was a disappointment.
Another perfect example was him toying with the idea of reviving Kishimoto ( my favorite Gantz character ) and Sei only to actually do so.... FOR 2 MINUTES and then kill them again in an extremely unceremonious and pointless way. He's talented as an artist and he is good at introducing cool ideas and likable as well as hateable characters but his execution is a let down each and every single time. Maybe he would've made a better story if it was a hentai and just about Kishimoto , Reika and the others doing lewd things lmfao.
Also one thing I wanna say about the aliens in the final arc is people who use the " it's like wiping out a race of humans and that's wrong " argument fail to understand that it isn't like that. The aliens gave the humans in Gantz no choice and they manipulated humans and used them as literally playthings to torment until they died. Whatever good the aliens showed imo wasn't enough to redeem the evil they showed as a species. I cheered when they were raped and I cheered when their civilization was wiped out. Maybe that makes me a bad person but at the end of the day I am a far better one than those creatures. I never tortured a 14 yo girl till she died and fed her to my dog for instance lol. Those aliens at least imo got what they had coming.
Anonymous7(1): @Crimson-Snow: I think those last aliens were just a stand-in for humanity. We as a species and as a whole are plenty capable of cruelty. To creatures different from ourselves, especially if we seem them as lesser than us. Hell, history and up to current events is chalk full of examples of people being awful to each other as well. And the fact that there was a nice alien among them willing to help something other than itself still means that not everyone is the same although we are all in the same boat. But whatever, I’m just glad it was done. Not to say that I was satisfied because I think most characters got a bum deal. It was kinda fun not knowing where it was going and seeing where they might be taking me but reaching the final destination, it’s clear they had no idea where they were going. At least we had some fun along the way but it was definitely a make things up as you go along sort of story and that usually does not hold up on revisits.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I have to disagree on the aliens. While it's true we humans are guilty of the same sort of things they showed to be more widely guilty of it. Also they knew humans were as sentient as they were and not only did they try to trick them because of that but they also went out of their way to purposely cause as much suffering as possible for humans. Do you really think so many humans would cheer at the deaths of children while watching them die on a big screen in a crowded city street? I just don't think so. Even if there are many people who would do it and we know there are I just can't see it being the same numbers the aliens showed. I know there are so many evil and cruel people full of hate and malice in our world but I am convinced humanity has more good than bad. As for the aliens we saw one alien that wasn't a cunt. Big fucking whoop honestly. Nearly every single other instance of those bastards on panel was them tormenting and killing humans in as cruel ways as possible while being fully aware we were as smart as they are.
They literally treated humans like insects while being fully aware we were their intellectual equals. They imo DESERVED to be washed away in a sea of their own blood and they are the ones who gave humanity no other choice. It was shown a number of times humans would've been willing to negotiate and make peace but the aliens weren't having it. Their all but unyielding cruelty and disregard for beings they KNEW were as sentient as they are sealed their fate. Any excuse for them is bleeding heart imo and just doesn't hold weight when push comes to shove. This wasn't a war between human nations it was a species intent and wiping out the entire human race as cruelly as possible and enjoying it while doing so. It was a real life " us or them " situation because they refused to let it be anything else. I literally laughed and cheered seeing them wiped out. They brought it upon themselves.
Anyway yes Gantz is clearly a make it up as you go along. I have seen interviews and he pretty much said he only kept Reika around so long because she was popular for example. He initially had plans to revive Kishimoto and Sei but basically for some unknown reason decided not to. Instead we got stuck with the shoehorned Anzu lol. Clearly he didn't think things through very deeply through the majority of his writings if at all. Gantz could've been masterpiece level but it comes away as simply " good " " or for some " great. " It's a shame really because it easily could've been one of the best manga and animes ever.
Anonymous8(1): @Crimson-Snow: Well it’s like how War of the Worlds uses alien invaders allegorically. One advanced and supposedly civilized society oppressing another. They might not be people one for one but there are parallels. And sure we aren’t cheering for the death of someone who isn’t a war criminal or terrorist or whatever. But gladiatorial fights, public executions and creative methods of torture and death will always be a chapter of human history. And that’s the stuff people do to each other. Just enough difference in appearance, belief, ideology, dialect, class or whatever is enough for someone to be distanced from and dehumanized. Forget about how smart and capable of reasoning they might be. Those Gantz members from the Osaka arc might not be devilish but they are still kind of dicks and probably a sign that there may be bit of jadedness towards humanity in the overall subtext.
I was kinda glad to see the old man die honestly. Not because I hated him but that he found peace in it and accepted it. So as much as I didn’t like that thing they did with Reika, I’m happy that she didn’t spend her pts. just to keep him around and away from his wife. That man had a conclusion and end I was fine with. A rare feat in this series.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I just saw your comment now sorry for missing it before. You are right about human cruelty and stuff in history. Personally the way I see it is anyone who does those sort of things you mention should be put down too lol. I'm all for an eye for an eye but obviously it has its limits. However in a situation like someone rapes a young girl etc etc they should get punished with extreme prejudice imo. Anyway , well I agree about the old man and honestly yes it's one of the few times a character had closure.
I also feel Kishimoto had a decent send off cause Kato reciprocated and she even if only for a literal moment got what she wanted. Kishimoto at least deserved to be brought back and speaking of Osaka group Anzu is pointless imo. It's like the writer wanted to take a fat shit on Kishimoto when he made Anzu. She asks Kato if he's trying to revive a girl and he just fucking thinks of Kurono. Then Anzu dies and we see Kato does indeed still have feelings for Kishimoto when he sees her original on the street and they are somewhat drawn to one another much different reaction she had with Kurono. Then Anzu gets revived by the otaku dude and gets ship teased with Kato. Then we get massive tease of Kishimoto reviving and seeing Kato again as only to be snatched away right from under us yet again.
Anzu shouldn't exist and yes Osaka team aside from Anzu , the otaku and those random innocent girls the rest of the team were imo all scum and deserved to die. It's disgusting to me that we spent so long with a fucking rapist helping our protagonists. Funny that he was a school teacher too. Really Gantz has like a handful of legitimately likable characters in it and literally nearly all of them die.
Anonymous9(1): @Crimson-Snow: I guess that’s something of an interesting recurring theme. Of closure and finding meaning in their deaths. Because a lot of the people sent to that room were all supposed to have died. So it’s like an opportunity to tie up loose ends, resolve things in life or do things differently. It did suck that the Sadako chick and bishounen guy died but at least this time he really looked at her and she had her feelings reciprocated.
But yeah, the writing around some if not all of the ladies in this is kinda not great. Which is unfortunate because they’re potentially interesting or you could definitely do something more with them. The same could be said of most of the cast get dusted casually and unceremoniously I suppose.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Hey sorry for a late reply! Was busy with thanksgiving stuff! Anyway yeah I really liked those two! The girls actual name is Sadayo Suzumura and the guy is Masanobu. Actually she does have like 3 or 4 pics on this site. I should commission that couple. Anyway personally Kishimoto and tae were my favorite Gantz characters. I liked Kato right away but I have to admit he's often too nice for his own good and it costs him dearly. I initially HATED Kurono but thankfully character development is a thing.
Anonymous10(1): @Crimson-Snow: I’m sort of mixed on Kurono. He just seems like an average hormonal boy. At first anyway. Kinda hated him for not bringing Sei back. She died protecting him but not worth spending the points I guess. It’s nice when Kato and him are together since the big guy brings out the good in him a little. And the sort of idealized memory of how Kurono used to be is what pushes him. They’re good for each other in a sense, just so long as a girl isn’t between them complicating things.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: LONG answer. The reason I hated Kurono initially was his selfish and downright cruel treatment of Kishimoto. He doesn't just expect her to put out but is angry that she doesn't. She has no reason whatsoever to like him and he's lucky she cared for him as much as she did. When Kishimoto first came to the Gantz room she had just committed suicide and woke up naked and surrounded by strange men. The first thing Kurono does is kiss her against her will. Seconds later the Yakuza scum takes her into the hallway to rape her. The only one who ame the only man in that horrible place who showed her even the slightest ounce of compassion and treated her like a human being was Kato. This was the flower that bloomed Kishimoto's love towards him. At her absolute worst moment her lowest point in abject terror and despair Kato showed her enough kindness to not only protect and save her from that scum but gave her his jacket. Not a single soul other than Kato treated her with even the smallest most miniscule ounce of human decency on that night.
Kurono molested her and she was almost raped both of which happened after her suicide. She's already so deep in her suffering she is willing to take her life and then she is treated like a meat sack to be raped and used against her will by strange men. Kurono didn't care about her initially. He was just butthurt that she showed feelings for Kato. Kurono was a selfish btthurt cucked loser who was angry that this " hot babe with big tits " wouldn't fuck him just because he let her stay at his apartment. In fact if you recall Kurono even considered taking her by force at one moment. Later Kishimoto is pouring her heart out to Kurono and is suffering because she cannot go home or else risk meeting her other self and hence dying. Kishimoto is yet again in despair and deep suffering and yet Kurono merely says " what's wrong with her! " and is angry she will not sleep with him and give in to his selfish and finite lustful desires. Some people are actually such toxic misogynists they take Kurono's side on this and say Kishimoto is stupid for staying at his place and sleeping in bed. Kishimoto had nowhere to go and neither of them new how to find Kato's place. If Kishimoto had known where Kato was she would've gone to his home but at the time she had no way of doing so.
Kishimoto doesn't owe Kurono ANYTHING. A butthurt angry cuck who's mad because the girl he wants to fuck won't sleep with him and instead is in love with the only guy who showed her any kindness on the worst night of her life. That doesn't make for a likable relatable or even tolerable protagonist. Or at least it SHOULDN'T to anyone with with even the slightest human decency or compassion. Kurono only cared about his selfish desires and not that Kishimoto was suffering. Kurono only thought of himself at that time whereas Kato on the other hand only ever thought of others. Kurono and Kishimoto did get closer ( especially in the anime ) but she never was in love with him or felt anything like him that was even close to the feelings she had for the kind gentleman who saved her from being raped and protected her when no one else even saw her as a person.
The ultimate insult was even after Kurono loses the V card to a hot slut milf he still is angry and butthurt that Kishimoto loves Kato and we see him act rude and like a douchebag because they are getting closer and holding hands and stuff. Of course that fateful mission both Kishimoto and Sei die however. Kurono cries for Kishimoto and feels awful that he lost her but even still his feelings are selfish love. His love was selfish and he still was angry that she wouldn't put out right up till the end. It's possible that Kurono later comes to understand that he and Kishimoto were more like brother and sister then lovers or anything due to their time together as roommates. This idea is further supported by the " god aliens " stating that clone Kurono , Kishimoto and Reika will at some point be reincarnated. With Reika as the mother , Kurono as the son and Kishimoto as the daughter and sister. Whatever Kurono may ultimately feel towards Kishimoto there is simply no defending his initial treatment of her. It doesn't matter if he is a selfish horny angry bitter teenager. His actions are simply inexcusable. He not only showed zero empathy for her SUFFERING but he even considered taking her against her will.
Anonymous11(1): @Crimson-Snow: I never really saw Sei as a slut. I always sort of saw it as her dealing with the thought of being dead or having a near death experience. She initially rejected the idea but than figured why not. As though it was something she wouldn’t normally do. I mean what’s the point in waiting or taking things slow when life is short or when you think you might already be dead? Still, given context, it maybe is kind of a slut thing to do to bang a guy she just met with a bunch of people in the next room. Maybe I’m just grabbing at straws because that character was barely there and wasn’t given much time to be fleshed out or developed before getting the “you sex, you die” treatment that most horror tangential stories tend to do. Fortune tends to not favour the fornicators.
I don’t know if I’d call her a milf though. She might be a bit older but I think she was only in her twenties. But I guess Anzu was around that age and actually was a mom so age is not exactly a restriction on that title. Not like the fact that she had a kid mattered all that much. I think it gives her a point of comparison to Kato that they both have someone to care for and look after. Which begs the question why she would take a bullet for a dude she just met when she has someone waiting at home for her and depending on her. Kato’s kind of the same with his brother actually. He rushes into dangerous situations without thinking like with the train. If Gantz weren’t a thing, he’d be dead and his brother would be left in the care of abusive assholes. It makes me wonder if Kato and this chick are just really thoughtless idiots or if their plot device people at home we’re just afterthoughts that are not relevant and aren’t even characters. But that’s how I personally feel about a lot of the things outside of the missions. They’re cooldown periods between action segments. The fact that Kurono has a brother and family, who cares? I mean the periods in between could be used to develop people, introduce new potential players or clue readers in on the black ball or alien life. Some of that gets done to be fair. But a lot of those periods feel like filler that I tend to gloss over and have little memory of. I’m not sure if Nishi getting a little trigger happy was a thing that actually happened or if I imagined it but I didn’t even think about that until you mentioned him.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I have no problem with promiscuity I didn't mean it as an insult. In fact I like them. I don't have much else to say about Sei honestly. She was important because she was who Kurono lost the V card to and he cared about her. Though not enough to stop his selfish butthurt fucking bullshit cuck whining over Kishimoto not wanting him.
Moving on , well yes it's clear that Ayumu ( Kato's brother ) and Anzu's son are plot devices and not really characters. Ayumu WAS a character at the start of Gantz but he is so out of focus by the end of it he is just a living emotional crutch for Kato to come home to or more so a reason to " live. " Anzu's character isn't really worth discussing in great detail and is just a perfect example the the creator just throwing shit out there. It's like Anzu was created specifically to take a fat shit on Kishimoto. Reika at least served a purpose with the possible love triangle and had actual character development. Both are pretty much unnecessary imo but make good fap fuel lol.
Tae Kojima was never just a plot device because she gets so much focus and it's at times equal to Kurono's level of focus. So much of the final arc we specifically followed Tae herself around as she tried to survive the aliens. Tae is actually the only reason Kurono becomes tolerable. Yes yes Kato's influence but really it was more so his selfless love for Tae and him learning what love actually is. I.E putting someone you care about before yourself. Tae's real purpose in Gantz was to teach Kurono REAL love and have him become someone who is at least remotely decent. Heck Tae and Kishimoto are my favorite Gantz characters in all honesty! And no it was never just her looks for me with Kishimoto but I feel I covered that in my other comment a while back.
Anyway Nishi yeah they fucked him over big time too. Nishi's initial death paints him in a sympathetic and imo extremely relatable light. He hated society because of how fucked up it was and he was angry and bitter but deep down he was a scared and lonely 14 year old. Nishi was actually right about society being so fucked up and we see him die as such a pathetic and scared kid. When he comes back he is basically made into a full on villain with zero redeeming qualities and any real depth he had is reduced to him being an actual school shooter ( yes it did happen you aren't imagining that scene. ) He is further assassinated as a character when he plans to kill Tae to basically just hurt Kurono. The thing is Nishi is actually right that the aliens NEED to be stopped at any and all costs but killing Tae is just pointless cruelty and paints him in an unnecessarily cliched villainistic light.
Anonymous12(1): @Crimson-Snow: I take it you’re referring to the time that the ball arbitrarily put a hit on one normal human girl for whatever reason? Just seemed like an out of left field decision made just to surprise and shock or something. I could be wrong. Maybe she found Kurono’s Gantz suit, caught him mid-transportation and asked online about it or just grew concerned about her boyfriend’s sudden and unexpected disappearances and started poking around where she shouldn’t be and discovered some truths she shouldn’t have. I just remember it not being very clear as to why she got targeted and would’ve really liked there being a clear and definitive reason or answer. The same way the person in the ball climbed out and played matchmaker for Reika all of a sudden. I wonder if there’s even a point to asking questions as to what’s going on.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: If you're talking about Tae I can't remember why it put a hit on her or why it tried to do stuff for Reika but honesty as you say maybe there isn't even a point. He just pulls stuff out of his ass and arbitrarily kills off , introduces and character assassinated characters at the drop of a hat. It's a shame because Gantz could've been a masterpiece. It showed promise in the earlier arcs.
Anonymous13(1): @Crimson-Snow: I wonder if at all that the writer got kind of fed up with his own work. You hear about bands or musicians who refuse to play or even listen to their own song for some reason. That and some creatives get tired and want to move on and try different things but what they have right now is their bread and butter so it becomes more of an obligation and chore than something done out of love or genuine interest. Plus I hear the life of a manga artist and overall working conditions in Japan is kind of taxing. I really didn’t want to think about all of these things going on in the background though. I just wanted some good shit and can’t help but wonder why when the thing in question starts to suffer or dip in quality as lots of things that maybe go on for too long do.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: It's entirely possible yes. It could be also that he's just that bad of a writer. I haven't checked out his other work called Gigantz ( how original lol ) which has a porn star / AV actress for a main protag but the idea is intriguing. If it's half as disappointing as Gantz though I think he should call it quits and maybe become a hentai doujin artist.
Anonymous14(1): @Crimson-Snow: Part of me does hope to see the series sort of refined and polished though. It’s a solid premise with decent art and with proper direction and a plan of what the ending should be, it could be something worth revisiting. As someone who really liked Men in Black and Starship Troopers and hoped to see proper and quality follow ups to them, Gantz sort of scratched that itch for a time. In any case, I hope the guy keeps drawing. You could say that about manga in general at the very least, that the art is pretty good.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Yeah two things I have to praise him for are his art and that he does introduce interesting or likable characters. It's really that he just doesn't execute their stories or character arcs very well. Also my friend and I have kind of a personal bias , Kishimoto deserved better. AT least with stuff like the ps2 Gantz game there are alternate endings so somewhere Kishimoto gets with Kato and is happy and others where she gets with Kurono and stuff. But still that character and many others deserved better. I don't think writing is this guys thing though. Stuff like the vampires could've been so interesting but he just droops it. He always pulled that kinda crap.
Anonymous15(1): @Crimson-Snow: A lot of properties out there would probably benefit from alternate endings or choose your own story paths. Never even heard about a game for Gantz but I guess there’s a lot of stuff in Japan that don’t get distributed widely. I could definitely picture a Earth Defense Force type build though. It definitely has enough for the makings of a pretty fun game.
I’ve not seen that much material for Gantz outside of the manga or anime. Except for that Japanese live action one which I remember being okay as far as live action anime or manga adaptations go. And that CG one based on the Osaka arc which was pretty damn good as far as visuals go. I definitely remember that upon a few revisits or rewatches, that there tends to be a lot is people standing around and just watching and not really doing anything though. That frustrates me a bit in any story. It’s like how in action movies when you see fighters standing there, waiting for there turn to 1v1 the main dude. Personally, that’s one of the things I always wanted to see from Gantz. A group of people so used to it or good at it that they progressed to the point that they can operate effectively as a team and keep casualties to a minimum. I think there may have been possibilities for something like that at points but it never quite got there.
Crimson-Snow: They tried a bit of it really to work as teams but still Gantz always has casualties and usually the more likable ones lol. Well the game is pretty good really. It covers stuff through like the shorty alien mission and around that time and yes thankfully you can keep everyone alive. Ah as for the cgi movie yes you meant Gantz 0. I found it rather disappointing. Actually them having Kato forget Kishimoto and Kurono ruined it for me. So I really wouldn't even give it a re watch in all likelihood. I'm a Kishimoto fanboy through and through lol.
Anonymous16(1): @Crimson-Snow: I can’t say I’m a fan of any character all that much. They tend not to stick around all that much or get time outside to really flesh them. I like the psychic guy with the glasses but he served as a mentor sort of role so he was pretty much always going to die I think. Most of his characters are alright I guess except the intentionally dickish types. There is always a sprinkling of minor civilian types that are kind of annoying and just there to raise the body count too I guess. I think the author might be a bit better at writing believably stubborn and insufferable people.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I love Kei Kishimoto. I could gush and gush about the reasons honestly but in short it's because she's a relatable and sympathetic character to me. Her being a total knockout definitely helps but really what I find so appealing about her is what's inside the character. Tae was my second favorite and I found her endearing and wanted her to be happy. Kato was a sweet person but I admit he at times was too soft for his own good and he could be annoying. Kurono was terrible at first but gets better but he's still not exactly my favorite character. Sei was interesting and genuinely likable but she was around for such a brief time. As for Sakurai and Sakata who you mention yeah I liked them. I like how Sakata gave no fucks and if someone did evil shit or bullied people he's like " fuck it , kill em. " Sakurai showed growth and likability specially with his little girlfriend Tonkotsu.
Anonymous17(1): @Crimson-Snow: I kind of like the idea of using that psychic kid and Nishi as foils for one another. Really explore the differences of two people who were the products of bullying. Or they could be bros, who knows. Just feels like a bit of a missed trick that nothing was done with them despite having a somewhat similar backstory.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Honestly dude that's gantz in a nutshell. Missed opportunities all around. Nishi's character was so fucking misused man. At least Sakurai stayed consistent.
Anonymous18(1): @Crimson-Snow: I can’t even say Gantz is alone in that. Plenty of stuff out there go into a slump, end disappointingly or do characters a disservice. That doesn’t really make it better, knowing how rare it is that something is ever mostly satisfying from start to finish. But it really helps one appreciate when something is made by actual craftsmen and with actual care. That they didn’t drop the ball.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I mean sure many series suffer from it it's just to different degrees. I just feel gantz is a good example because he's so guilty of it here.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I'll be honesty my biggest complaint is always going to be that Kishimoto died and didn't get revived despite not only multiple opportunities but her getting revived for a second and then getting killed again. It's so clear to me he doesn't truly care about his characters aside from if any of them Kurono , Kato and maybe Tae. I just think Kishimoto's treatment is best example. He's said part of the reason he didn't bring her back was Reika became so popular ( god I hate Reika's fans lol ) but I feel that's a bit of a cop out excuse. It's not just Kishimoto it's so many characters.
All in all my major beef is his shit handling of most of his characters. I have to say though I also hate how it's clear he was just throwing shit out there like vampires and fighting pandas and lets not forget that stunt with Nishi and I hate it. Under a better writer we could've had one of the greatest manga and anime of all time. Instead we have something that had potential to be a masterpiece but at the end of the day could be labeled as great at best and mediocre at worst.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Well it's isn't much consolation no but at least that Kishimoto can get the help she needs and live. I just wanted Kishimoto to live and get with the guy she loves honestly. As for Reika I am fine with her character and I definitely don't hate her. I do however fucking loath her fanboys. Reika at least has a reason for being in the story and part of that is to create a love triangle of sorts anyway with Kurono and Tae. And she does have her own development and arc. I don't think her wanting to help people is just an image. I mean I know she wanted to be with Kurono and impress him but she's not a bad person.
Anzu is the one who has no place or right to even exist imo. It's like Anzu was created to make it so " haha Kato's got another girl so we can totally forget about miss mellons. " It's as if he wanted to give the biggest " fuck you " he could to Kishimoto by not only giving Kato another girl but then killing and reviving that girl instead of Kishimoto and as a final nail in the coffin reviving Kishimoto only to kill her again in like one actual minute. Anzu shouldn't exist , and in my experience her fans are the WORST! I see no reason why they have to vilify Kishimoto when Anzu is the one alive and who basically got with Kato only because Kishimoto is dead. I mean after Anzu died Kato saw the original Kishimoto and they were attracted to one another and he showed he was still thinking of Kishimoto. Then when she's revived briefly he shows he still cares and is heartbroken again when she dies. I guess maybe they feel the need to insult Kishimoto because their girl got the boy solely because the other girl was fucking dead.
As for a good fanfiction I'm sure one exists that at least does a number of characters more justice. Again at least the Gantz game lets you keep people like Kishimoto and Sei alive and have alternate routes where like what if Kurono tried to save her from Yakuza first and they get together and he acts like a better person ( only because you can make him do so cause it's a game lol. ) Or stuff like him getting to take a ride in Sei's care etc. So the game kinda makes it so Gantz in some ways could be considered multiverse but that's a whole other can of worms haha. But yeah I am not huge on fanfiction either honestly but I'm sure there's some decent Gantz fanfiction.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Hey sorry I'm like 4 days late replying to this. Hope you see this reply when you can. Anyway yeah I know what you mean about Reika and well Anzu just shouldn't be in Gantz imo. Or at least Anzu just has no right getting with Kato and I really hate the way things turned out there. Right up until the very last arc when Kishimoto was revived a bit we see Kato cares about her. Anzu honestly I just ugh wtf?! If anything Anzu should've gotten with virgin kun lol. ( The otaku who revived her ) and yeah idk why this guy has this big thing about girls dying for the guy. But that's another thing , Reika's fans act like she's the first person to do that when she's legit the last.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I never said Reika didn't belong I said Anzu is the one who has no place in the story. Anyway well plenty of boys were willing to die for girls in this the problem is the girls always died.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Yeah I haven't read it yet Gigantz or whatever so I don't know but hopefully. Anyway well I think Kato did the right thing trying to help that homeless guy. I think Kato was often right actually to try to help people but he could be too soft. Like he should've beaten Nishi's ass or something and I would've legit murdered the Yakuza trying to rape Kishimoto. As for Anzu I just feel she was a pointless second love interest when it wasn't needed.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Actually even that martial artist you are thinking of gets a love interest of sorts by the final arc. Mary McClane and she doesn't die iirc. But really who cares because I never found that character or the homely kid that interesting lol. I mean it was sweet he took care of him but I don't care very much about those characters. Anyway I quite enjoyed the anime only story arc and yeah Mika Kanda ( who you mentioned a while ago in the chat ) was hot. I thought the villains in the anime only ar were great. That blue haired bastard was such a perfectly evil monster type of villain.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Well it was true that evil rich people watched the games in secret I remember that. I actually think the horsed face cunt aliens in the final arc are great villains. It also makes for very good debate on being for or against whipping out a race of aliens who want to wipe us out. Personally imo they got what they deserved but it's always something that I feel is a great topic to discuss from Gantz.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: They got what they had coming imo and frankly that's putting it mildly. They were going to wipe humanity out and as cruelly as possible when humans were willing to have piece talks and coexist. I laughed when they got raped and cheered when they were wiped out honestly. As for the warrior Kurono had to fight there really wasn't much to him he was just a strong warrior from that alien race , supposed to be the strongest. I'm almost always the type to believe that the good in people outweighs the bad but the aliens convinced me of the opposite in their case and most importantly they didn't even give us a chance for anything else.
If a few supposedly innocent aliens ( even the one Kurono befriended treated him like less than dog shit at first ) had to die in order to wipe out a civilization that was so toxic they chose not only to come in and kill beings they knew damn well were as sentient as they were as brutally as possible , but to laugh about it , feed them to their pets and even make game shows out of their deaths while cheering the deaths of actual babies then so be it. I was ecstatic when they got wiped out. I feel their arc despite its many flaws at least make for interesting conversation about the US vs THEM situation of an entire civilization and planet vs another.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Yeah the statues were certainly some of the most original and strange stuff in the entire series and with a series this infamous for insanity that says a lot. Personally I felt the shorty Aliens were pretty cool and so were the Osaka arc ones that were basically just Yokai. Well the four eyed horse faced bastards in the final did a good enough job of getting me to hate them lol. Try to trick humanity , torture and kill as as cruelly as possible while knowing we're as sentient as you are , laughing about every singe mean thing you do to us and make a game show out of it certainly earns a fucking place on my personal shit list lol.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I think the reason they went out of their way to show their cruelty and them as a society was to spark debate about if wiping them out was the proper thing to do. The thing is they really didn't give humans a choice. Anyway yeah Mars Attacks aliens and yep Destroy All Humans more comedic and plus Krypto seems to be more comfortable with taking over earth more so than destroy every actual human. I mean he was pretty much satisfied as long as he was in a position of power and had a ton of sexy human women to fuck from what I remember of those games. Plus from what I recall didn't he stop some guys who had worse plans for Earth? It's been so fucking long since I played any of the DAH games but I remember in the second one he teams up with some like sexy secret agent or something.
Anyway yeah the big green " onion alien " in Gantz. Yeah they kill his son or whatever he was to him so he had an actual reason to lose his shit and attack. I also wouldn't be surprised if the shorty aliens had some reason for fighting maybe much like the way people get put into the Gantz game. I remember they had " taken refuge " on Earth and I remember the last alien came to Kurono's school to kill him and everyone because Kurono killed all the others or something. Speaking of Kurono's school , that reminds me ... what did you think of Izumi as a character?
Crimson-Snow: Yes I am referring to that piece of shit who killed a fuck ton of innocent people because boredom. I think he's worse than Nishi. Nishi was at least picked on and hated society btu Izumi had EVERYTHING! He had beautiful girls throwing themselves at him , good looks , talent you name it but he found regular life oh so dull and wanted the crazy adventure and danger og Gantz again. The fact that he was willing to butcher so many innocent people just for his selfish desires makes him stand out as one of the biggest turds in the series , which speaks volumes lol. For what it's worth at least he died shielding his girlfriend and yeah even he was like " why did I do it? "
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Sorry my reply is late. I love stories of redemption too but they have to be done believably and properly. My favorite is Kaioh from the Fist of The North Star series. I think he is the perfect example of a character truly redeeming themselves wholeheartedly , no shortcuts and no half assing it. Imo to be redeemed first and foremost it's important the person is truly contrite and secondly that they want to change. My problem is in so many of these shonen and western superhero stories stories the bad guys are forgiven too easily and don't really earn it. It's more so the generic main characters vow to never take a life that leads to it. This wasn't the case in fotns lol and every bad guy who gets redeemed you really feel it and feel their humanity.
Now as for Izumi. Well I agree of course that his redemption could've been handled better. I am glad he showed at least a miniscule glimmer of humanity there at the end but it feels too little too late. I too would have liked to see the world learn the truth about his mass shooting at least and have his name defaced etc. I don't think the outside world was ready to learn about Gantz back then , not until the final arc but yeah they deserved to know the truth about Izumi. I would've loved to see what his gf would have thought of him then. He died saving her but what would she think of the man he had been up to that point? Would she hate him or would she love the man who died protecting her before he even realized what he was doing and who didn't fully understand it himself? Once again Gantz is brilliant at introducing the idea but suffers from failed execution.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I think it can also work if the villain gets a backstory that is not only sympathetic but can be relatable , even if it's later on into their game as a villain. But someone like Izumi shouldn't be relatable to anyone lol. Like I feel almost anyone can be redeemed but more than anything whats important is they're legit contrite and have changed. Izumi's death almost felt like he wrote that cause he didn't know what else to do with his character and what we saw of Izumi really doesn't paint him in a humanistic light except for that one scene.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I totally agree! I have always absolutely abhorred the mentality that how nice something looks and or it's action sequences or soundtrack defines a story and it's quality. All these things can help make a story better but they should always take a backseat to plot and characterization. To me people who say " oh the visuals were so amazing " and spend hours blabbering away about how good the animation etc looks in a movie , anime , cartoon etc or judge a video games merits based solely on the graphics are the lowest common denominator. It's why you see some animes that are really at best " fun " or enjoyable or even " great " instead end up being touted as " masterpieces " or the end all be all of their genre. It's why we hear shit like " lol Kill La Kill saved anime " when anime didn't need saving.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I actually love the third movie honestly but yeah most of the sequels are nowhere near the level of the original movie. There's honestly better examples imo though , like look at how stale the Simpsons has become at this point. Used to be the best animated sitcom and one of the best sitcoms but now it's a shell of it's former self with miniscule sprinkles every few years of the heart it used to have. It's became a slightly less low brow slightly less soulless Family Guy. It's literally like when Obi-wan tells Anakin " you have become the very thing you swore to destroy " lol.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: I've always felt Southpark was kinda a bit much , even flat out disgusting at times. I understand that that is it's intent but idk while I find it sometimes could be hilarious it more often than not honestly made me cringe. Ah yes child abuse , nazisim and suicide are oh so fucking funny lol. I find it extremely ironic that these people who claim to find it hysterically funny would be offended if it was any other fucking shot. I'd still take crappy current Simpsons over Southpark honestly. That personal opinion aside yes I agree that it's unavoidable when shows change writers so much and have been on for so long. Personally I think it would've been ideal of The Simpsons had ended after the movie.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Yeah that's usually the excuse I hear for Southpark being so over the top and I feel ya but again while it at times has been hysterically funny to me there's some stuff in it I just can't find funny. My complaint isn't with the show so much as how people are able to find it funny but only in that specific source material. Classic case of hypocrisy. If another show went to the same levels they would say oh this is too far etc but if SP is making fun of child rape and suicide it's all of a sudden comedy fucking gold apparently.
ANYWAY more importantly yes about Futurama. I am so glad the show ended when it did and same for King Of the Hill too. However like you say , it is possible Disney may fuck that up too. They just can't leave stuff alone. But Disney has also been fucking itself lately with that sort of behavior. They've started to realize they caused a lot of problems with the Star Wars series for instance by trying to separate the SW expanded universe and their new so called " canon. " If they were more familiar with the older source materials they'd now that Star Wars technically already had a multiverse shown in the comics Star Wars Infinities. There was no reason to try to insult the other stories by claiming they're just " legends " and not at all valid. All they had to do was say " seperate canons " which was already a fucking thing before they came along. Lately they've sort of realized their mistakes and have been paying more attention to " legends " Star Wars works like releasing new figures of characters like Mara Jade and jaina Solo on the Star Wars black figure series.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Well Dave Filoni's Star Wars cartoons are brilliant , that's something that hasn't changed with or without Disney. I've not actually played Jedi Fallen Order but I hear very positive things about it. Anyway yep Mel Brooks the producers was hilarious. Also if you feel the chat is too large idk maybe move it somewhere else like if you have private message or are on any other sites. Idk up to you.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: OK as a lifelong Star Wars fan I'm gonna set you straight on some stuff. Anakin was ALWAYS likable and Grievous was ALWAYS a joke. Don't take this the wrong way but it's your fault if you couldn't connect to Anakin or relate at all and see where he was coming from during the prequel trilogy. Given his experiences as a slave and how the Jedi actually weren't the best guardians or group to be raised in. All Clone Wars does is showcase MORE of why Anakin was far from being entirely in the wrong and showcase more of why while it's true he failed the Jedi and himself the Jedi also failed him. The Jedi are dogmatic and often uncaring. This lack of attachment they preach is actually a bad thing and jedi like Mace Windu and Luminara Unduli are pretty much terrible people in retrospect.
In Clone Wars Luminara was perfectly fine with leaving her padawan Bariss to die and was instantly ready to move on and GIVE UP. Anakin refused to give up on Ahsoka and Barriss and that was why they survived. Also Luminara was overconfident against sith assassin Asajj Ventress and Ahsoka had to save her ass multiple times. A padawan had to handle the fighting and basically protect her ass. Lastly when Luminara's reckless chase of Ziro the hutt ends up getting the Martez sisters parents killed she says " I'm sorry , but I had a choice to make. Oh don't worry though the force will be with you " and leaves. So basically " oh I killed your parents? Tough shit kids I had to make a choice ... but hey if it's any consolation this mystical mumbo jumbo force that you have no awareness of is with you ok? Well I gotta run , have a nice life lol. "
Mace is a fucking asshole and even in the movies you can see it. Mace not only doesn't want Anakin to be trained as a Jedi , he flat out admits to Obi-wan he doesn't trust him. Mace has no reason whatsoever to distrust Anakin and Ani has proved himself time and time again by the time of rots. Mace countless other times has shown to be a dick and yes a lot of it is in Clone Wars. You see Dave Filoni saw things from a different perspective than the prequel trashing and Anakin hating idiots. Filoni actually fucking saw what George Lucas was going for. That while Anakin is extremely flawed the Jedi are also immensely flawed in their own right and that in actuality it was the jedi and their bullshit combined with the loss of his mother , his beloved Padawan Ahsoka leaving the order and his fear of losing his most beloved person that made him so open to Palpatine and his manipulation. Remember that Palpatine had been like a grandfather figure to Anakin for YEARS by the time of rots. It's not just Clone Wars but many comics and novels that show this as well as the movies themselves.
The Jedi as a whole in Phantom Menace ( outside of Qui-Gon who was the greatest jedi who ever lived ) were dicks. Imagine telling a 9 year old boy that being afraid and wanting to see his mother , missing her and loving her is wrong. Yes attachment is wrong ..... we should all be emotionally distant dogmatic weirdos in cloaks who just come in and step in as " defenders of the peace " even against the will of citizens. A huge point of the Clone Wars in general not just shown in the show was that the so called defenders of the peace were becoming military commanders. Also it was the Jedi's insane dogma and them basically betraying Ahsoka that pushed her away and made her leave the order which was a giant break for Anakin and made him get ever closer to where he is at during ROTS. And it was actually Mace more than anyone who is to blame for Ahsoka leaving the order. I won't get too into that because it's got some huge clone wars spoilers , unless you want me to.
Anyway the lack of attachment does lead to bad things and while Anakin can be argued to be too attached there are many times where those qualities of never giving up on those he loves etc made him a stand out hero. The greatest Jedi are Qui-Gon Jinn and Kanan Jarrus from Rebels. Kanan is a Jedi who understands attachment but doesn't allow it to consume him. He fights for the people he cares about but he doesn't allow his fear of losing them to destroy him. Trust me , Rebels lives up to clone wars. The only detractors are people who thought it was a bit too comedic in season 1 because they were coming off the high heavy hardcore fumes of the Clone Wars. What makes Jedi like Qui-Gon , Kanan , Luke and Ahsoka the greatest Jedi is they are able to realize and understand that people need people to care about but they don't let it consume them. They are able to go against Jedi dogma but also not fall into the realm of sith territory. When Luke refuses to kill Vader and throws his lightsaber away , that is the mark of a true Jedi and what a Jedi is really supposed to be. Remember that both Yoda and Obi-wan wanted Luke to kill him. But just like Padme believed in him till the very end , Luke could never ever abandon Anakin.
Anyway about Grievous well I'll cover it quickly. OK in the original 2003 Clone Wars cartoon ( not the Filoni one , the one that came out even before rots and the one that first introduced both Grievous and the lovely Asajj Ventress ) Dooky himself says that in order to defeat the strongest Jedi Grievous needs the elements of " surprise , fear and trickery " on his side to kill them. When we are introduced to him Grievous fights Ki-adi Mundi , Shaak ti , Aayla Secura and a number of other Jedi and is overpowering them. However these jedi while strong are a fair bit weaker than prodigies like Obi-Wan , Anakin , Mace and even Qui-Gon and Ahsoka and most importantly here is that Grievous has all the advantages Dooku said he needs in this fight. In Dave Filoni's Clone Wars Grievous is not as weak as his fanboys would have you believe. Yes he runs away often and is a trickster and a cheat but he was ALWAYS portrayed this way , from his introduction in 2003 onward. The only difference is Filoni doesn't have him fighting like 5 Jedi at once. You'll remember even in Rots Grievous prefered to have Magnaguards to back him up and fight dirty. In rots Mace says " General Grievous is a coward , he will run and hide as he ALWAYS does. " The majority of Grievous greatest victories and moments have been with an advantage on his side and due to his tricky nature. That hasn't changed , it's just that Filoni wanted to make it abundantly clear that above all Grievous is a seething , sneaky , diabolical , hate fuelled coward.
Lastly it's funny you mention how pathetic Vader would be if he were similar. While Vader is anything but pathetic , the reason I mention this is if you read a lot of the comics Vader is initially a fair deal weaker than when he was prime Anakin when he first gets the suit. It's only much later , by the time of the original trilogy that Vader really hits his stride and is stronger than when he was prime Anakin. At first it's difficult for him to move in the suit and he has a few problems. He isn't ever quite as quick as he used to be and can't perform all the same maneuvers. In one comic he eventually faces the man who created his Vader suit Cylo. Cylo disables the suit and shuts it down and it seems Vader is going to die for certain , in this moment his rage , grief and closeness to death give him a greater strength in the force than he had ever had before and he is able to override the suit shutting itself down and kill Cylo. This is the moment where his power as vader starts to peak and they even show him having a force vision of him killing Anakin and Obi-wan on mustafar which is his inner monologue etc and why he gets so angry.
Crimson-Snow: @Anonymous: Grievous is not the main villain , he is a lackey for Dooku and a very different sort of villain. Many people , myself included enjoy villains who are not always overpowered. If every damn villain was as powerful as Palpatine things would get a bit boring imo. Grievous is the type of villain who will cheat , use tricks and do diabolical and cowardly things to win. Grievous being such a piece of shit is what is so enjoyable about him as a character. Grievous will use any means whatsoever to win and above all he is a coward he is VERMIN and that is why he is such a fantastic villain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWGYnSUDdRY
As for you not connecting to Anakin yeah it is your bad and faults your own there. I blame it somewhat on prequal hate hype. Ironically these movies only became hated after certain people decided it was popular to hate them but are now beloved once again and by many fans even more so than the original trilogy. I know my generation who grew up as the prequels were coming out , my friends and I always ALWAYS loved them. Actually I find it sad you didn't get the type of old fashioned passionate romance George Lucas was going for with Anakin and Padme. People like Dave Filoni not only understood these things but did expand on them.
You see when Anakin first meets Padme he thinks she's an angel. Some people think this is corny but it really isn't. When you're 9 years old and smitten with the most beautiful girl you've ever seen , grew up a slave and don't know much about the anything outside Tatooine it's not really stupid at all. This scene between them is brilliant in retrospect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWVJgNxSdS0
Dare I say that Padme is the type of person nearly any man could fall for. A sort of " compassionate mother star " akin to Yuria from the Fist of The North Star series if you will. Anakin was under her spell not simply because it was a childish crush or anything like that but because he saw that in her. When they get together again in aotc and Padma starts to realize her passion and love for him as well it was supposed to be akin to a very old fashioned pure slowly burning passionate sort of love. There's a reason so many young girls at the time ate it up and saw Ani as such a heart throb. Ani is compassionate , emotional , playful , passionate , can be intense , loyal and above all loving. Yes he has great anger but under his circumstances it's understandable. If the Tusken raiders had killed my mother I would've done far worse things than Anakin ever did lol. However above all Anakin is a loving person who doesn't want to lose the people he cares about.
Ironically these traits are both what helped him fall down the path of a sith lord and became Vader but are also what redeemed him at the very end. He and Obi-wan were like brothers and teased one another and joke around but at the same time Anakin could be too emotional ( which again given his circumstances is understandable ) and Obi-wan often too critical. Criticism is one thing but Kenobi had a habit of either being extremely snarky and insulting or flat out condemning , which didn't do wonders for their relationship. Ahsoka was actually clearly closer to Anakin and was like a younger sister sort of figure so when she left the order it was a very important step for him becoming Vader.
Anakin can't stand to lose the people he loves and he needs them around. He feels lost without his mother or Ahsoka around and gets increasingly manipulated by Palpatine who he also loves like a grandfather figure. What's important here is that Ani became a sith because he couldn't stand the thought of losing the person he loves more than anyone else , Padme. Here's the thing though , at the end Luke shows all encompassing love towards his father and he refuses to kill him or throw him away. Luke refused to do what Yoda or Obi-wan or Palpatine wanted and stood by his father because Luke knew that there was still good in there. Ani can't bear to see his only son , the last refuge of his humanity , the last bit of his former self be killed by Palpatine and so he finally kills Palps himself and saves Luke , dying in the process. The same fear that made him fall to villainy the fear of losing his most precious person is also what redeemed his soul. Star Wars more than anything is a tale of redemption and the original 6 movies are Anakin's story , if anything Anakin/Vader IS STAR WARS.
1278keikaku: Well, well. What a nice explanation about what makes Star Wars. It seems that whenever I see Crimson-Snow comment, there's always a fucking comment war going on. Rapeisthopheles is already fucking around, and we can only stand one incel, not two. So, I hope Crimson-Snow stops his shit
Crimson-Snow: @1278keikaku: We're not having a comment war dipshit. We've been having an in depth lengthy and cordial discussion about Gantz and other things and the topic turned to Star Wars.
Anonymous19: @Crimson-Snow: @1278keikaku: I mean this too polite to be a comment war. I haven't noticed any racism or slurs either, so while nerdy this is all perfectly acceptable behavior by my book.
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And her name was Mika Kanda I guess.
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I mean her or that Sadako chick. There were a few other cute girls from branches outside of the Tokyo one but I can’t really name them because they didn’t get much time to do anything or leave an impression.
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Another glaring example of the authors bad writing is what he does with Nishi. Nishi's first death is genuinely sympathetic and it gave closer to his character and showed us that he was basically just a scared fucked up child deep down. With his later revival this is seemingly retconned and he is made a flat out villain. The character gets no depth from there onward and dies a card carrying villain who IIRC even tried to murder Tae simply for the lulz. This writer is fantastic at introducing interesting characters and elements however he fails to give them a satisfying or meaningful conclusion almost every single time.
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Another perfect example was him toying with the idea of reviving Kishimoto ( my favorite Gantz character ) and Sei only to actually do so.... FOR 2 MINUTES and then kill them again in an extremely unceremonious and pointless way. He's talented as an artist and he is good at introducing cool ideas and likable as well as hateable characters but his execution is a let down each and every single time. Maybe he would've made a better story if it was a hentai and just about Kishimoto , Reika and the others doing lewd things lmfao.
Also one thing I wanna say about the aliens in the final arc is people who use the " it's like wiping out a race of humans and that's wrong " argument fail to understand that it isn't like that. The aliens gave the humans in Gantz no choice and they manipulated humans and used them as literally playthings to torment until they died. Whatever good the aliens showed imo wasn't enough to redeem the evil they showed as a species. I cheered when they were raped and I cheered when their civilization was wiped out. Maybe that makes me a bad person but at the end of the day I am a far better one than those creatures. I never tortured a 14 yo girl till she died and fed her to my dog for instance lol. Those aliens at least imo got what they had coming.
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They literally treated humans like insects while being fully aware we were their intellectual equals. They imo DESERVED to be washed away in a sea of their own blood and they are the ones who gave humanity no other choice. It was shown a number of times humans would've been willing to negotiate and make peace but the aliens weren't having it. Their all but unyielding cruelty and disregard for beings they KNEW were as sentient as they are sealed their fate. Any excuse for them is bleeding heart imo and just doesn't hold weight when push comes to shove. This wasn't a war between human nations it was a species intent and wiping out the entire human race as cruelly as possible and enjoying it while doing so. It was a real life " us or them " situation because they refused to let it be anything else. I literally laughed and cheered seeing them wiped out. They brought it upon themselves.
Anyway yes Gantz is clearly a make it up as you go along. I have seen interviews and he pretty much said he only kept Reika around so long because she was popular for example. He initially had plans to revive Kishimoto and Sei but basically for some unknown reason decided not to. Instead we got stuck with the shoehorned Anzu lol. Clearly he didn't think things through very deeply through the majority of his writings if at all. Gantz could've been masterpiece level but it comes away as simply " good " " or for some " great. " It's a shame really because it easily could've been one of the best manga and animes ever.
I was kinda glad to see the old man die honestly. Not because I hated him but that he found peace in it and accepted it. So as much as I didn’t like that thing they did with Reika, I’m happy that she didn’t spend her pts. just to keep him around and away from his wife. That man had a conclusion and end I was fine with. A rare feat in this series.
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I also feel Kishimoto had a decent send off cause Kato reciprocated and she even if only for a literal moment got what she wanted. Kishimoto at least deserved to be brought back and speaking of Osaka group Anzu is pointless imo. It's like the writer wanted to take a fat shit on Kishimoto when he made Anzu. She asks Kato if he's trying to revive a girl and he just fucking thinks of Kurono. Then Anzu dies and we see Kato does indeed still have feelings for Kishimoto when he sees her original on the street and they are somewhat drawn to one another much different reaction she had with Kurono. Then Anzu gets revived by the otaku dude and gets ship teased with Kato. Then we get massive tease of Kishimoto reviving and seeing Kato again as only to be snatched away right from under us yet again.
Anzu shouldn't exist and yes Osaka team aside from Anzu , the otaku and those random innocent girls the rest of the team were imo all scum and deserved to die. It's disgusting to me that we spent so long with a fucking rapist helping our protagonists. Funny that he was a school teacher too. Really Gantz has like a handful of legitimately likable characters in it and literally nearly all of them die.
But yeah, the writing around some if not all of the ladies in this is kinda not great. Which is unfortunate because they’re potentially interesting or you could definitely do something more with them. The same could be said of most of the cast get dusted casually and unceremoniously I suppose.
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Kurono molested her and she was almost raped both of which happened after her suicide. She's already so deep in her suffering she is willing to take her life and then she is treated like a meat sack to be raped and used against her will by strange men. Kurono didn't care about her initially. He was just butthurt that she showed feelings for Kato. Kurono was a selfish btthurt cucked loser who was angry that this " hot babe with big tits " wouldn't fuck him just because he let her stay at his apartment. In fact if you recall Kurono even considered taking her by force at one moment. Later Kishimoto is pouring her heart out to Kurono and is suffering because she cannot go home or else risk meeting her other self and hence dying. Kishimoto is yet again in despair and deep suffering and yet Kurono merely says " what's wrong with her! " and is angry she will not sleep with him and give in to his selfish and finite lustful desires. Some people are actually such toxic misogynists they take Kurono's side on this and say Kishimoto is stupid for staying at his place and sleeping in bed. Kishimoto had nowhere to go and neither of them new how to find Kato's place. If Kishimoto had known where Kato was she would've gone to his home but at the time she had no way of doing so.
Kishimoto doesn't owe Kurono ANYTHING. A butthurt angry cuck who's mad because the girl he wants to fuck won't sleep with him and instead is in love with the only guy who showed her any kindness on the worst night of her life. That doesn't make for a likable relatable or even tolerable protagonist. Or at least it SHOULDN'T to anyone with with even the slightest human decency or compassion. Kurono only cared about his selfish desires and not that Kishimoto was suffering. Kurono only thought of himself at that time whereas Kato on the other hand only ever thought of others. Kurono and Kishimoto did get closer ( especially in the anime ) but she never was in love with him or felt anything like him that was even close to the feelings she had for the kind gentleman who saved her from being raped and protected her when no one else even saw her as a person.
The ultimate insult was even after Kurono loses the V card to a hot slut milf he still is angry and butthurt that Kishimoto loves Kato and we see him act rude and like a douchebag because they are getting closer and holding hands and stuff. Of course that fateful mission both Kishimoto and Sei die however. Kurono cries for Kishimoto and feels awful that he lost her but even still his feelings are selfish love. His love was selfish and he still was angry that she wouldn't put out right up till the end. It's possible that Kurono later comes to understand that he and Kishimoto were more like brother and sister then lovers or anything due to their time together as roommates. This idea is further supported by the " god aliens " stating that clone Kurono , Kishimoto and Reika will at some point be reincarnated. With Reika as the mother , Kurono as the son and Kishimoto as the daughter and sister. Whatever Kurono may ultimately feel towards Kishimoto there is simply no defending his initial treatment of her. It doesn't matter if he is a selfish horny angry bitter teenager. His actions are simply inexcusable. He not only showed zero empathy for her SUFFERING but he even considered taking her against her will.
I don’t know if I’d call her a milf though. She might be a bit older but I think she was only in her twenties. But I guess Anzu was around that age and actually was a mom so age is not exactly a restriction on that title. Not like the fact that she had a kid mattered all that much. I think it gives her a point of comparison to Kato that they both have someone to care for and look after. Which begs the question why she would take a bullet for a dude she just met when she has someone waiting at home for her and depending on her. Kato’s kind of the same with his brother actually. He rushes into dangerous situations without thinking like with the train. If Gantz weren’t a thing, he’d be dead and his brother would be left in the care of abusive assholes. It makes me wonder if Kato and this chick are just really thoughtless idiots or if their plot device people at home we’re just afterthoughts that are not relevant and aren’t even characters. But that’s how I personally feel about a lot of the things outside of the missions. They’re cooldown periods between action segments. The fact that Kurono has a brother and family, who cares? I mean the periods in between could be used to develop people, introduce new potential players or clue readers in on the black ball or alien life. Some of that gets done to be fair. But a lot of those periods feel like filler that I tend to gloss over and have little memory of. I’m not sure if Nishi getting a little trigger happy was a thing that actually happened or if I imagined it but I didn’t even think about that until you mentioned him.
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Moving on , well yes it's clear that Ayumu ( Kato's brother ) and Anzu's son are plot devices and not really characters. Ayumu WAS a character at the start of Gantz but he is so out of focus by the end of it he is just a living emotional crutch for Kato to come home to or more so a reason to " live. " Anzu's character isn't really worth discussing in great detail and is just a perfect example the the creator just throwing shit out there. It's like Anzu was created specifically to take a fat shit on Kishimoto. Reika at least served a purpose with the possible love triangle and had actual character development. Both are pretty much unnecessary imo but make good fap fuel lol.
Tae Kojima was never just a plot device because she gets so much focus and it's at times equal to Kurono's level of focus. So much of the final arc we specifically followed Tae herself around as she tried to survive the aliens. Tae is actually the only reason Kurono becomes tolerable. Yes yes Kato's influence but really it was more so his selfless love for Tae and him learning what love actually is. I.E putting someone you care about before yourself. Tae's real purpose in Gantz was to teach Kurono REAL love and have him become someone who is at least remotely decent. Heck Tae and Kishimoto are my favorite Gantz characters in all honesty! And no it was never just her looks for me with Kishimoto but I feel I covered that in my other comment a while back.
Anyway Nishi yeah they fucked him over big time too. Nishi's initial death paints him in a sympathetic and imo extremely relatable light. He hated society because of how fucked up it was and he was angry and bitter but deep down he was a scared and lonely 14 year old. Nishi was actually right about society being so fucked up and we see him die as such a pathetic and scared kid. When he comes back he is basically made into a full on villain with zero redeeming qualities and any real depth he had is reduced to him being an actual school shooter ( yes it did happen you aren't imagining that scene. ) He is further assassinated as a character when he plans to kill Tae to basically just hurt Kurono. The thing is Nishi is actually right that the aliens NEED to be stopped at any and all costs but killing Tae is just pointless cruelty and paints him in an unnecessarily cliched villainistic light.
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I’ve not seen that much material for Gantz outside of the manga or anime. Except for that Japanese live action one which I remember being okay as far as live action anime or manga adaptations go. And that CG one based on the Osaka arc which was pretty damn good as far as visuals go. I definitely remember that upon a few revisits or rewatches, that there tends to be a lot is people standing around and just watching and not really doing anything though. That frustrates me a bit in any story. It’s like how in action movies when you see fighters standing there, waiting for there turn to 1v1 the main dude. Personally, that’s one of the things I always wanted to see from Gantz. A group of people so used to it or good at it that they progressed to the point that they can operate effectively as a team and keep casualties to a minimum. I think there may have been possibilities for something like that at points but it never quite got there.
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All in all my major beef is his shit handling of most of his characters. I have to say though I also hate how it's clear he was just throwing shit out there like vampires and fighting pandas and lets not forget that stunt with Nishi and I hate it. Under a better writer we could've had one of the greatest manga and anime of all time. Instead we have something that had potential to be a masterpiece but at the end of the day could be labeled as great at best and mediocre at worst.
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Anzu is the one who has no place or right to even exist imo. It's like Anzu was created to make it so " haha Kato's got another girl so we can totally forget about miss mellons. " It's as if he wanted to give the biggest " fuck you " he could to Kishimoto by not only giving Kato another girl but then killing and reviving that girl instead of Kishimoto and as a final nail in the coffin reviving Kishimoto only to kill her again in like one actual minute. Anzu shouldn't exist , and in my experience her fans are the WORST! I see no reason why they have to vilify Kishimoto when Anzu is the one alive and who basically got with Kato only because Kishimoto is dead. I mean after Anzu died Kato saw the original Kishimoto and they were attracted to one another and he showed he was still thinking of Kishimoto. Then when she's revived briefly he shows he still cares and is heartbroken again when she dies. I guess maybe they feel the need to insult Kishimoto because their girl got the boy solely because the other girl was fucking dead.
As for a good fanfiction I'm sure one exists that at least does a number of characters more justice. Again at least the Gantz game lets you keep people like Kishimoto and Sei alive and have alternate routes where like what if Kurono tried to save her from Yakuza first and they get together and he acts like a better person ( only because you can make him do so cause it's a game lol. ) Or stuff like him getting to take a ride in Sei's care etc. So the game kinda makes it so Gantz in some ways could be considered multiverse but that's a whole other can of worms haha. But yeah I am not huge on fanfiction either honestly but I'm sure there's some decent Gantz fanfiction.
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If a few supposedly innocent aliens ( even the one Kurono befriended treated him like less than dog shit at first ) had to die in order to wipe out a civilization that was so toxic they chose not only to come in and kill beings they knew damn well were as sentient as they were as brutally as possible , but to laugh about it , feed them to their pets and even make game shows out of their deaths while cheering the deaths of actual babies then so be it. I was ecstatic when they got wiped out. I feel their arc despite its many flaws at least make for interesting conversation about the US vs THEM situation of an entire civilization and planet vs another.
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Anyway yeah the big green " onion alien " in Gantz. Yeah they kill his son or whatever he was to him so he had an actual reason to lose his shit and attack. I also wouldn't be surprised if the shorty aliens had some reason for fighting maybe much like the way people get put into the Gantz game. I remember they had " taken refuge " on Earth and I remember the last alien came to Kurono's school to kill him and everyone because Kurono killed all the others or something. Speaking of Kurono's school , that reminds me ... what did you think of Izumi as a character?
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Now as for Izumi. Well I agree of course that his redemption could've been handled better. I am glad he showed at least a miniscule glimmer of humanity there at the end but it feels too little too late. I too would have liked to see the world learn the truth about his mass shooting at least and have his name defaced etc. I don't think the outside world was ready to learn about Gantz back then , not until the final arc but yeah they deserved to know the truth about Izumi. I would've loved to see what his gf would have thought of him then. He died saving her but what would she think of the man he had been up to that point? Would she hate him or would she love the man who died protecting her before he even realized what he was doing and who didn't fully understand it himself? Once again Gantz is brilliant at introducing the idea but suffers from failed execution.
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ANYWAY more importantly yes about Futurama. I am so glad the show ended when it did and same for King Of the Hill too. However like you say , it is possible Disney may fuck that up too. They just can't leave stuff alone. But Disney has also been fucking itself lately with that sort of behavior. They've started to realize they caused a lot of problems with the Star Wars series for instance by trying to separate the SW expanded universe and their new so called " canon. " If they were more familiar with the older source materials they'd now that Star Wars technically already had a multiverse shown in the comics Star Wars Infinities. There was no reason to try to insult the other stories by claiming they're just " legends " and not at all valid. All they had to do was say " seperate canons " which was already a fucking thing before they came along. Lately they've sort of realized their mistakes and have been paying more attention to " legends " Star Wars works like releasing new figures of characters like Mara Jade and jaina Solo on the Star Wars black figure series.
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In Clone Wars Luminara was perfectly fine with leaving her padawan Bariss to die and was instantly ready to move on and GIVE UP. Anakin refused to give up on Ahsoka and Barriss and that was why they survived. Also Luminara was overconfident against sith assassin Asajj Ventress and Ahsoka had to save her ass multiple times. A padawan had to handle the fighting and basically protect her ass. Lastly when Luminara's reckless chase of Ziro the hutt ends up getting the Martez sisters parents killed she says " I'm sorry , but I had a choice to make. Oh don't worry though the force will be with you " and leaves. So basically " oh I killed your parents? Tough shit kids I had to make a choice ... but hey if it's any consolation this mystical mumbo jumbo force that you have no awareness of is with you ok? Well I gotta run , have a nice life lol. "
Mace is a fucking asshole and even in the movies you can see it. Mace not only doesn't want Anakin to be trained as a Jedi , he flat out admits to Obi-wan he doesn't trust him. Mace has no reason whatsoever to distrust Anakin and Ani has proved himself time and time again by the time of rots. Mace countless other times has shown to be a dick and yes a lot of it is in Clone Wars. You see Dave Filoni saw things from a different perspective than the prequel trashing and Anakin hating idiots. Filoni actually fucking saw what George Lucas was going for. That while Anakin is extremely flawed the Jedi are also immensely flawed in their own right and that in actuality it was the jedi and their bullshit combined with the loss of his mother , his beloved Padawan Ahsoka leaving the order and his fear of losing his most beloved person that made him so open to Palpatine and his manipulation. Remember that Palpatine had been like a grandfather figure to Anakin for YEARS by the time of rots. It's not just Clone Wars but many comics and novels that show this as well as the movies themselves.
The Jedi as a whole in Phantom Menace ( outside of Qui-Gon who was the greatest jedi who ever lived ) were dicks. Imagine telling a 9 year old boy that being afraid and wanting to see his mother , missing her and loving her is wrong. Yes attachment is wrong ..... we should all be emotionally distant dogmatic weirdos in cloaks who just come in and step in as " defenders of the peace " even against the will of citizens. A huge point of the Clone Wars in general not just shown in the show was that the so called defenders of the peace were becoming military commanders. Also it was the Jedi's insane dogma and them basically betraying Ahsoka that pushed her away and made her leave the order which was a giant break for Anakin and made him get ever closer to where he is at during ROTS. And it was actually Mace more than anyone who is to blame for Ahsoka leaving the order. I won't get too into that because it's got some huge clone wars spoilers , unless you want me to.
Anyway the lack of attachment does lead to bad things and while Anakin can be argued to be too attached there are many times where those qualities of never giving up on those he loves etc made him a stand out hero. The greatest Jedi are Qui-Gon Jinn and Kanan Jarrus from Rebels. Kanan is a Jedi who understands attachment but doesn't allow it to consume him. He fights for the people he cares about but he doesn't allow his fear of losing them to destroy him. Trust me , Rebels lives up to clone wars. The only detractors are people who thought it was a bit too comedic in season 1 because they were coming off the high heavy hardcore fumes of the Clone Wars. What makes Jedi like Qui-Gon , Kanan , Luke and Ahsoka the greatest Jedi is they are able to realize and understand that people need people to care about but they don't let it consume them. They are able to go against Jedi dogma but also not fall into the realm of sith territory. When Luke refuses to kill Vader and throws his lightsaber away , that is the mark of a true Jedi and what a Jedi is really supposed to be. Remember that both Yoda and Obi-wan wanted Luke to kill him. But just like Padme believed in him till the very end , Luke could never ever abandon Anakin.
Anyway about Grievous well I'll cover it quickly. OK in the original 2003 Clone Wars cartoon ( not the Filoni one , the one that came out even before rots and the one that first introduced both Grievous and the lovely Asajj Ventress ) Dooky himself says that in order to defeat the strongest Jedi Grievous needs the elements of " surprise , fear and trickery " on his side to kill them. When we are introduced to him Grievous fights Ki-adi Mundi , Shaak ti , Aayla Secura and a number of other Jedi and is overpowering them. However these jedi while strong are a fair bit weaker than prodigies like Obi-Wan , Anakin , Mace and even Qui-Gon and Ahsoka and most importantly here is that Grievous has all the advantages Dooku said he needs in this fight. In Dave Filoni's Clone Wars Grievous is not as weak as his fanboys would have you believe. Yes he runs away often and is a trickster and a cheat but he was ALWAYS portrayed this way , from his introduction in 2003 onward. The only difference is Filoni doesn't have him fighting like 5 Jedi at once. You'll remember even in Rots Grievous prefered to have Magnaguards to back him up and fight dirty. In rots Mace says " General Grievous is a coward , he will run and hide as he ALWAYS does. " The majority of Grievous greatest victories and moments have been with an advantage on his side and due to his tricky nature. That hasn't changed , it's just that Filoni wanted to make it abundantly clear that above all Grievous is a seething , sneaky , diabolical , hate fuelled coward.
Lastly it's funny you mention how pathetic Vader would be if he were similar. While Vader is anything but pathetic , the reason I mention this is if you read a lot of the comics Vader is initially a fair deal weaker than when he was prime Anakin when he first gets the suit. It's only much later , by the time of the original trilogy that Vader really hits his stride and is stronger than when he was prime Anakin. At first it's difficult for him to move in the suit and he has a few problems. He isn't ever quite as quick as he used to be and can't perform all the same maneuvers. In one comic he eventually faces the man who created his Vader suit Cylo. Cylo disables the suit and shuts it down and it seems Vader is going to die for certain , in this moment his rage , grief and closeness to death give him a greater strength in the force than he had ever had before and he is able to override the suit shutting itself down and kill Cylo. This is the moment where his power as vader starts to peak and they even show him having a force vision of him killing Anakin and Obi-wan on mustafar which is his inner monologue etc and why he gets so angry.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWGYnSUDdRY
As for you not connecting to Anakin yeah it is your bad and faults your own there. I blame it somewhat on prequal hate hype. Ironically these movies only became hated after certain people decided it was popular to hate them but are now beloved once again and by many fans even more so than the original trilogy. I know my generation who grew up as the prequels were coming out , my friends and I always ALWAYS loved them. Actually I find it sad you didn't get the type of old fashioned passionate romance George Lucas was going for with Anakin and Padme. People like Dave Filoni not only understood these things but did expand on them.
You see when Anakin first meets Padme he thinks she's an angel. Some people think this is corny but it really isn't. When you're 9 years old and smitten with the most beautiful girl you've ever seen , grew up a slave and don't know much about the anything outside Tatooine it's not really stupid at all. This scene between them is brilliant in retrospect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWVJgNxSdS0
Dare I say that Padme is the type of person nearly any man could fall for. A sort of " compassionate mother star " akin to Yuria from the Fist of The North Star series if you will. Anakin was under her spell not simply because it was a childish crush or anything like that but because he saw that in her. When they get together again in aotc and Padma starts to realize her passion and love for him as well it was supposed to be akin to a very old fashioned pure slowly burning passionate sort of love. There's a reason so many young girls at the time ate it up and saw Ani as such a heart throb. Ani is compassionate , emotional , playful , passionate , can be intense , loyal and above all loving. Yes he has great anger but under his circumstances it's understandable. If the Tusken raiders had killed my mother I would've done far worse things than Anakin ever did lol. However above all Anakin is a loving person who doesn't want to lose the people he cares about.
Ironically these traits are both what helped him fall down the path of a sith lord and became Vader but are also what redeemed him at the very end. He and Obi-wan were like brothers and teased one another and joke around but at the same time Anakin could be too emotional ( which again given his circumstances is understandable ) and Obi-wan often too critical. Criticism is one thing but Kenobi had a habit of either being extremely snarky and insulting or flat out condemning , which didn't do wonders for their relationship. Ahsoka was actually clearly closer to Anakin and was like a younger sister sort of figure so when she left the order it was a very important step for him becoming Vader.
Anakin can't stand to lose the people he loves and he needs them around. He feels lost without his mother or Ahsoka around and gets increasingly manipulated by Palpatine who he also loves like a grandfather figure. What's important here is that Ani became a sith because he couldn't stand the thought of losing the person he loves more than anyone else , Padme. Here's the thing though , at the end Luke shows all encompassing love towards his father and he refuses to kill him or throw him away. Luke refused to do what Yoda or Obi-wan or Palpatine wanted and stood by his father because Luke knew that there was still good in there. Ani can't bear to see his only son , the last refuge of his humanity , the last bit of his former self be killed by Palpatine and so he finally kills Palps himself and saves Luke , dying in the process. The same fear that made him fall to villainy the fear of losing his most precious person is also what redeemed his soul. Star Wars more than anything is a tale of redemption and the original 6 movies are Anakin's story , if anything Anakin/Vader IS STAR WARS.
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